May 21, 2012, 11:07 PM : Please sign in or register for a free account. Get information about membership.
. . . New: ... Pay to change the logo for six hours Who's chatting now:
News: France




France
France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By FrogFryer Comments: 35648, member since Wed Apr 16, 2003
On Tue Nov 29, 2011 03:59 PM
For much of the past two years, Germany has endured a lot of criticism for its approach to the euro-zone crisis, not all of it fair. Some say it is guilty of ingratitude, failing to acknowledge how much of its own economic success is due to membership of the euro zone; many believe it has misused its political and economic power to impose ill-judged austerity policies on its European neighbors, worsening their economic crises; and it is accused of a lack of solidarity for refusing to allow policies that might end the crisis, such as greater European Central Bank intervention and the creation of common euro-zone bonds. The result is that Chancellor Angela Merkel can expect to receive much of the blame if, as some now expect, the common currency breaks up.

NOVEMBER 29, 2011, 4:35 P.M. ET France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough

For much of the past two years, Germany has endured a lot of criticism for its approach to the euro-zone crisis, not all of it fair. Some say it is guilty of ingratitude, failing to acknowledge how much of its own economic success is due to membership of the euro zone; many believe it has misused its political and economic power to impose ill-judged austerity policies on its European neighbors, worsening their economic crises; and it is accused of a lack of solidarity for refusing to allow policies that might end the crisis, such as greater European Central Bank intervention and the creation of common euro-zone bonds. The result is that Chancellor Angela Merkel can expect to receive much of the blame if, as some now expect, the common currency breaks up.

There is an element of truth to these criticisms. Germany has certainly often been slow to appreciate the consequences of its actions. It underestimated the speed and severity of the contagion that arose after it insisted on imposing losses on private-sector owners of government bonds as a condition of future bailouts; it failed to anticipate the devastating impact on confidence of Ms. Merkel's statement that Greece could leave the euro; and even now, Germany may be underestimating the seriousness of the current crisis—in particular how far the sovereign-debt crisis reflects a loss of confidence in the wider market rather than a lack of credibility in national fiscal policies.

Even so, Germany can't be faulted for its clear-sighted analysis of the euro's failings and what must be done to eliminate them. It has recognized that this is, above all, a governance crisis. Too many European governments had become the prisoners of vast, unproductive public sectors and over-mighty trade unions, buying electoral support with lavish entitlements that destroyed competitiveness and ran up unsustainable debts. At the same time, Germany recognized that the euro zone's institutional arrangements, including the Stability and Growth Pact that was supposed to guarantee fiscal discipline, had proved woefully inadequate. Finally, it recognized that only market forces, no matter how painful, could exert the necessary pressure on governments to reform.

Whatever the current market turmoil, Germany's approach has certainly yielded results: Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, Spain and now Belgium have new governments committed to far-reaching fiscal and structural reform. Meanwhile, Germany's campaign to reform euro-zone governance is also bearing fruit. European Commission President José Manuel Barroso and the president of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, are both working on proposals to improve fiscal scrutiny and discipline. Ms. Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy have also discussed fast-track reform ideas that could be implemented without an EU treaty change. A European Council summit on Dec. 9 will consider these proposals amid hopes they will pave the way for a "Grand Bargain," in which a clear commitment from euro-zone leaders to improve discipline and minimize moral hazard will pave the way for a major ECB intervention.

Indeed, the biggest obstacle to a resolution of the crisis may now be France rather than Germany. Unlike Germany, a federal state that has always been comfortable with ceding power to the European Commission, France is a highly centralized state whose own European vision has historically been based on political agreements between nation states. This division has long dogged the European project: France rejected former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl's plans for deeper political and fiscal integration at the creation of the euro; it broke the rules of the Stability and Growth Pact , flouted single-market rules and consistently resisted the kind of structural reforms now being demanded of euro-zone member states; more recently, it held up the "six-pack" reforms designed to increase economic policy coordination, only backing down as the price of securing Germany's support for this year's July 21 summit deal.

But French resistance to greater fiscal and political union may be crumbling under the intensity of the crisis. President Sarkozy is due to give a speech Thursday in which he will set out his plans for improving economic integration, increasing fiscal harmonization, guaranteeing discipline, ensuring solidarity and improving euro-zone governance, according to someone familiar with the situation. Whether these proposals will be far-reaching enough to win over Germany remains to be seen. Germany is determined that the euro zone must be based on the rule of law, not political deals. But it may have to give ground, too: Mr. Sarkozy may find it politically impossible to sell any deal to French voters that involves a loss of sovereignty unless Germany is prepared to commit to policies that lead to increased solidarity.
I keep asking but our frunch members are mum .....and stoooopid........and smelly

Nonetheless, for the first time since the crisis began two years ago, the outline of a possible long-term solution to save the euro is emerging; after two years of incremental solutions that only undermined market confidence, there is a growing realization that only much deeper fiscal and political union can create the conditions in which the ECB can act and member states might ultimately pool their tax bases to create euro bonds. The ECB, for its part, seems ready to act: It is actively considering a range of options to intervene in what it now considers is a real threat to monetary stability, including yield targeting and funding other bailout vehicles, such as the International Monetary Fund and European Financial Stability Facility, according to someone familiar with its thinking.

Sure, enormous execution risks remain. Any deal will need to be accepted and then ratified by all 17 members of the euro zone—and all 27 members of the European Union if treaty changes are required. And the euro zone is engaged in a race against time: Banks are hemorrhaging funding and parts of Europe already face a severe credit crunch; doubts will persist about the sustainability of some countries' debts. Many countries will take years to restore their competitiveness; further debt relief and possibly fiscal transfers may be needed to keep the euro zone together.

Further dark days are inevitable. But if Mr. Sarkozy can show the political leadership and imagination that has so far been conspicuously lacking throughout this crisis and put forward workable euro-zone governance proposals, he may yet start to draw a line under the crisis—and boost his chances of re-election next year.

Write to Simon Nixon at simon.nixon@wsj.com

7 Replies to France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough

re: France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By SevenSeventeen Comments: 13559, member since Tue Apr 22, 2003
On Tue Nov 29, 2011 04:09 PM
"set out his plans for improving economic integration, increasing fiscal harmonization, guaranteeing discipline, ensuring solidarity and improving euro-zone governance"


Yeah, yeah - and if the Euros could chew the fat over it, digest it, defacate it, spread the feces over tea leaves and read it - and than have another Brussels confab 2 years hence to codify it into Euro law and than another 5 years to put it into practise and implament it than all would be swell.

Only one small problem with that - the bond vigs want a clear cut plan - NOW.

The half life of big Euro pronouncements doesn't even last a day anymore.

BTW, I haven't looked how are church raffles, errr bake sales, errr bond auctions going this week in Eurarabia :)
re: France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By FrogFryer Comments: 35648, member since Wed Apr 16, 2003
On Tue Nov 29, 2011 04:39 PM
the meeting today went well

they've scheduled a meeting on when to set a meeting to discuss a meeting about a possible meeting about a discussion on when to schedule bathroom breaks during the meeting about weather or not the let merkel beat them with that hammer



Italy sold what it needed today but the 3 year spiked

yields on 10 year

second is the spread VS bund
third is vs Tbond

Italy 7.30% + 4.99 +5.35
France 3.54% +1.23 +1.55
Greece 28.75% +26.44 +26.76
Spain 6.40% +4.10 +4.41
re: France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By FrogFryer Comments: 35648, member since Wed Apr 16, 2003
On Tue Nov 29, 2011 04:42 PM
But French resistance to greater fiscal and political union may be crumbling under the intensity of the crisis. President Sarkozy is due to give a speech Thursday in which he will set out his plans for improving economic integration, increasing fiscal harmonization, guaranteeing discipline, ensuring solidarity and improving euro-zone governance, according to someone familiar with the situation. Whether these proposals will be far-reaching enough to win over Germany remains to be seen. Germany is determined that the euro zone must be based on the rule of law, not political deals. But it may have to give ground, too: Mr. Sarkozy may find it politically impossible to sell any deal to French voters that involves a loss of sovereignty unless Germany is prepared to commit to policies that lead to increased solidarity.



all i really want is a frog to chime in here


jean we already know is partial to ode to joy
VLF wants to kill them all blah blah death to the euro

win a war ?
simple ?

for the greater good ?
re: France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By SevenSeventeen Comments: 13559, member since Tue Apr 22, 2003
On Tue Nov 29, 2011 04:47 PM
The goods new is they toughed it out and signed the check for another 11 billion for Greece to pay the publix zector loafers through December.

And with rates like these:

Greece 28.75% +26.44 +26.76

They'll fucking need it because there are nigger check cashing places that can't away with charging rates like this :D
re: France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough (karma: 3)  en>fr fr>en
By NOZZLE Comments: 13395, member since Mon Mar 07, 2005
On Tue Nov 29, 2011 04:47 PM
Translation

1. The party must continue of giving loafers freebies for existing and not just bricks of cheese but an actual middle class lifestyle.

2. Germany has to pay because it is most able to and it would demonstrate that it is part of the euro family.
re: France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough en>fr fr>en
By MadRusski Comments: 38833, member since Mon Aug 16, 2004
On Tue Nov 29, 2011 05:03 PM
they've scheduled a meeting on when to set a meeting to discuss a meeting about a possible meeting about a discussion on when to schedule bathroom breaks during the meeting about weather or not the let merkel beat them with that hammer


Typical way of European dignitaries
re: France May Provide A Euro Breakthrough en>fr fr>en
By GhostDivision Comments: 3201, member since Thu Feb 09, 2006
On Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:24 AM
NOZZLE wrote:

Translation

1. The party must continue of giving loafers freebies for existing and not just bricks of cheese but an actual middle class lifestyle.

2. Germany has to pay because it is most able to and it would demonstrate that it is part of the euro family.


Altes_Zeropa won't be crowing for long after the greasy Greek Wogs like Nikos_Alias bankrupts Berlin. :D

ReplySendWatch

Advertise Here

The Ban Chronicles

ArthurH banned Fredmasse for 48 hours on Thu Apr 26 10:39 with the message 'popular request'

Antiricain banned WilyB for 48 hours on Thu Apr 26 08:21 with the message 'expatrié sarkozyste.Traître à la nation française'

Antiricain banned jeanv for 48 hours on Thu Apr 26 07:45 with the message 'VIVE LE PEN !'

ArthurH banned shon for 48 hours on Wed Apr 25 02:10 with the message 'simple test'

shon banned webmaster for 24 hours at Sun Apr 22 23:51 with the message 'Because webmaster has not contributed anything useful or amusing to the site'




. . . Return to Top of Page